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Essays

elven rebirth

This came from a combination of private emails with Fim and a thread on a mailing list, but I wanted to put my thoughts somewhere more permanent.

Could Aegnor have been reborn in the same manner as Glorfindel? I am fairly sure this was never mentioned by J.R.R. but I was wondering if it was actually possible?

Ah, and we touch on a topic that Fim and I had been discussing a week or so ago. My thoughts? The Aegnor Decipher used, no, I do not believe they thought of rebirth. I think they liked the name and used it. As for the topic of Elven rebirth (be prepared, I ramble about this)...

I do not believe Glorfindel was anything special in terms of heroism. I mean, Ecthelion slew four Balrogs! He sacrificed himself to kill Gothmog. All Glorfindel did was turn his back before he should have. There were also others in Gondolin, as well as others in earlier wars, that did wonderful, selfless, heroic things, so it's hard to say that Glorfindel alone got some special dispensation from the Valar because of his deeds. To me, it doesn't add up; I don't believe he was that special. Especially since Glorfindel was part of Finrod/Turgon's host that came to Alqualondë after the Kinslaying began and aided Fëanor, not knowing why there were so many dead Elves. I have always held that Glorfindel was a kinslayer, though he never knew why he was fighting his kin, only that the Noldor were being driven back by the Teleri and it was his duty to protect his kings and lords.

The LACE explicitly states that "none have returned twice from Mandos", which seems to imply that there have been those that have gone twice to Mandos -- which could only happen if others returned to Middle-earth after rebirth. There was no death in Aman, so the only logical thought there is that others that returned as Glorfindel did, but died, unlike him. It is only that Glorfindel is the only Elf who took part in the War of the Ring, which was the tale told at the time. Tolkien didn't write much about the Second Age, and by the time the Third Age rolled around, there were few Elves who would meddle in the world of Man.

Now, rebirth is a right that cannot be denied, only delayed. Eru states as much himself.

That the Silm states "when Feanor is reborn" (not if) -- which could be taken as a variation of "when pigs fly" (IOW, an impossible occurrance), but when put alongside "when the Moon falls" (which has been said will happen), it is more likely to imply some inevitability. Now, I have just spent the past hour rereading the section in Vol. 5 of the HoME where Tolkien offered a deeper development of the end of the Silm, and it does not say "when Fëanor is reborn", it simply states that (I am going to include the two sections, because the one makes no sense without the other):

"Thus spoke Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor, and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of Night out of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sun and Moon. But Eärendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Fionwë (-> Eonwë), and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.

Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendil shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and bear them to Yavanna at Palúrien; and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the Light shall flow out over all the world. In that light the Gods will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilúvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Túrin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar."

Now, this does not say that Fëanor will only then come from Mandos -- it states he will take the Silmarils to Yavanna. To me, this means he has already been reborn, grown up, and his memories been restored, which says his rebirth will happen before the ending of the marred world he left in his wake.

The conditions of Aman would not sit will with certain elements of the Eldar. The Noldor would likely still be viewed with a certain amount of suspicion -- even if the "Teleri forgave their old grievences" once the War of Wrath had played out, while the Sindar would have a certain measure of contempt levelled toward them, since their language and culture co-opted all others in Aman. And many of the Sindar are Sindar because they did not want to go to Aman in the first place. Being forced to stay someplace they never wanted to be in to begin with would foster a lot of discontent among those people.

Fim had mentioned a ban once the Elves returned to Aman, but I could not find it in the Silm, WoJ, or LR. If someone can find it (and Fim, this means you), I would love to see it so I can look up the corresponding commentary in the HoME.

What does all this mean? Well, my opinion -- and only my opinion, drawn from all I have read -- is that Glorfindel was not the only Elf to return to Middle-earth, he was just the only one publicized. Tolkien was so big on language, on the way he worded his works, that the "none have returned twice" deal speaks volumes without saying much.


	Disclaimer This site contains content of an adult nature, both in written and graphical versions. If you are under the age of consent in your city, state, country, or province, please click here and exit the site. Site Map home lotr fanfiction elvish rants inspiration artwork links Section Links Canon vs AU/Non-Canon Children and Music The Civil War Debunking Evil!Thranduil Elven Haircolor 101 Elvish Names 101 Elvish Names Continued Elven Population Elven Rebirth Fanon, Part One Free Speech Independence Day Bullshit Musings On The Movie "Supersize Me" The Mysterious Glorfindel Nazi Germany Symbols and Words Voting Rights Act Who Is Gildor Inglorion? Why Gay Christian Is Not An Oxymoron		Essays elven rebirth This came from a combination of private emails with Fim and a thread on a mailing list, but I wanted to put my thoughts somewhere more permanent. Could Aegnor have been reborn in the same manner as Glorfindel? I am fairly sure this was never mentioned by J.R.R. but I was wondering if it was actually possible? Ah, and we touch on a topic that Fim and I had been discussing a week or so ago. My thoughts? The Aegnor Decipher used, no, I do not believe they thought of rebirth. I think they liked the name and used it. As for the topic of Elven rebirth (be prepared, I ramble about this)... I do not believe Glorfindel was anything special in terms of heroism. I mean, Ecthelion slew four Balrogs! He sacrificed himself to kill Gothmog. All Glorfindel did was turn his back before he should have. There were also others in Gondolin, as well as others in earlier wars, that did wonderful, selfless, heroic things, so it's hard to say that Glorfindel alone got some special dispensation from the Valar because of his deeds. To me, it doesn't add up; I don't believe he was that special. Especially since Glorfindel was part of Finrod/Turgon's host that came to Alqualondë after the Kinslaying began and aided Fëanor, not knowing why there were so many dead Elves. I have always held that Glorfindel was a kinslayer, though he never knew why he was fighting his kin, only that the Noldor were being driven back by the Teleri and it was his duty to protect his kings and lords. The LACE explicitly states that "none have returned twice from Mandos", which seems to imply that there have been those that have gone twice to Mandos -- which could only happen if others returned to Middle-earth after rebirth. There was no death in Aman, so the only logical thought there is that others that returned as Glorfindel did, but died, unlike him. It is only that Glorfindel is the only Elf who took part in the War of the Ring, which was the tale told at the time. Tolkien didn't write much about the Second Age, and by the time the Third Age rolled around, there were few Elves who would meddle in the world of Man. Now, rebirth is a right that cannot be denied, only delayed. Eru states as much himself. That the Silm states "when Feanor is reborn" (not if) -- which could be taken as a variation of "when pigs fly" (IOW, an impossible occurrance), but when put alongside "when the Moon falls" (which has been said will happen), it is more likely to imply some inevitability. Now, I have just spent the past hour rereading the section in Vol. 5 of the HoME where Tolkien offered a deeper development of the end of the Silm, and it does not say "when Fëanor is reborn", it simply states that (I am going to include the two sections, because the one makes no sense without the other): "Thus spoke Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor, and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of Night out of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sun and Moon. But Eärendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Fionwë (-> Eonwë), and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged. Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendil shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and bear them to Yavanna at Palúrien; and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the Light shall flow out over all the world. In that light the Gods will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilúvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Túrin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar." Now, this does not say that Fëanor will only then come from Mandos -- it states he will take the Silmarils to Yavanna. To me, this means he has already been reborn, grown up, and his memories been restored, which says his rebirth will happen before the ending of the marred world he left in his wake. The conditions of Aman would not sit will with certain elements of the Eldar. The Noldor would likely still be viewed with a certain amount of suspicion -- even if the "Teleri forgave their old grievences" once the War of Wrath had played out, while the Sindar would have a certain measure of contempt levelled toward them, since their language and culture co-opted all others in Aman. And many of the Sindar are Sindar because they did not want to go to Aman in the first place. Being forced to stay someplace they never wanted to be in to begin with would foster a lot of discontent among those people. Fim had mentioned a ban once the Elves returned to Aman, but I could not find it in the Silm, WoJ, or LR. If someone can find it (and Fim, this means you), I would love to see it so I can look up the corresponding commentary in the HoME. What does all this mean? Well, my opinion -- and only my opinion, drawn from all I have read -- is that Glorfindel was not the only Elf to return to Middle-earth, he was just the only one publicized. Tolkien was so big on language, on the way he worded his works, that the "none have returned twice" deal speaks volumes without saying much.